eBay boycotters damaging online sellers, PSU & others

[The Bar Keep]

I would have never believed it until it actually happened but the boycott this time around has shown me just how un-business like the knee jerk reactors to the recent changes at eBay are. It has been the intention of this forum to help online sellers from it's inception no matter where they sell, own website, eBay or one of the alternatives. IMO what we have witnessed, with this failed boycott of eBay, has done nothing more than take money away from online sellers who choose to sell at certain venues (not myself, I show a 40% growth rate year over year at all my websites and eBay). We have seen people give up income to take part and for what when they need the money to pay medical bills etc...

Ask yourself these questions.

What would be if there never was a microsoft?

What would be if there never was an internet?

What would be if there never was a Google?

What would be if there never was a GE?

What would be if there never was an eBay?

If eBay never came about to be, do you think there would be millions of people earning a living and supporting themselves from online sales solely? EBay provided and continues to provide the opportunity for millions of people to become independent business owners (self reliant). Ask yourself what has eBay done for the handicap in terms of being able to supplement income or for the elderly to provide basic needs? Alternative sites IMO are the true greedy, they are the ones who want to be what eBay is even if on a small scale. Alternatives wouldn't even be if it wasn't for eBay.

What has transpired with this boycott has done nothing more that delay income for a few. I have seen threats comes from boycotters to affect sellers who choose not to boycott, get real people, has your belief in helping your fellow online sellers left you? I think it's time to come to grips with the fact that eBay is a business and a good one at that. You can choose to sell there or you can choose not to. What I don't understand is what gives the boycotters the right to take business away from people who choose to sell there only to bring more attention to alternative sites that have limited amounts of buyers. That to me is business interference and IMO is theft!!!

Oh yeah you will hear people say it's because ebay charges all these fees, give me a break!!! It is my choice and it is your choice to sell at eBay. I don't see anybody holding a gun to my head or yours to sell there but in fact I see people affecting it based on misinformation as a whole.

I don't boycott making money but after this post I will be boycotting any site that has participated in the boycott of eBay based on basic principles of business.


Joe - The Bar Keep

[robertjohnston]

I agree with Barkeep. I choose not to sell on ebay and not to boycott Ebay or any other site. You probably compare Ebay with the Mall of America. They both genarate lots of traffic giving you a chance at selling a lot of product. You can open a store at Mall of America but you pay huge rent costs. Same thing at Ebay you can open a store and genarate large amount of traffic but you will pay for that large volume of buyers with higher rent. You just have to adjust your margin of markup. What hurts are the sellers willing to lose money on their product just to make a sale.

[DeeCan]

Preachin' to the choir! (Need a hallelujah smiley, please)

And the idiot lots (um, hmm PSU) are doing nothing but driving folks to eBay to see what the big hoopla is about. Geniouses!!!

My whole opinion on the issue is like they say about America:  Love it or Leave it! 

And to add my own ending:  ...and quite your damn bitching!

[The Bar Keep]

eBay boycotters stumble upon what appears to be trust and safety reported listings. See links below:

PSU thread:
http://powersellersunite....m/about16921-0-asc-0.html

eBay discussion boards:
http://forums.ebay.com/db...p;anticache=1204383462599

A C&P of the accounts in question:
sdc_prod_434012 # of listings 35002
sdc_prod_9124_14 # of listings 48395
sdc_prod_9074_35 # of listings 21401
sdc_prod_9452 # of listings 24501
sdc_prod_301013_74 # of listings 27291
sdc_prod_9352_67 # of listings 30278
sdc_ prod_ 9055 # of listings 1925


After looking into some of the listings associated with the accounts above I have determined since the seller ID appears to be multiples of different eBay seller accounts. Further digging into listings that appear as still active, with a constructive viewpoint, shows that each listing in some way violates eBay's listing policy. AKA linking to sites outside of eBay within the listing or choice listing policy.

What appears to be fudged numbers from eBay is nothing more than eBay's trust and safety department reviewing reported listings and acting on them either way.


Joe - The Bar Keep

[The Bar Keep]

A quote from the eBay discussion boards as referenced in the above thread:

OK, I have had a closer look at the PSU post concerning some.

The user has used IFRAME HTML - which displays within that IFRAME the eBay page you are looking at, thats all, but it is also 'rover tracked' in other words eBay Affiliate linked, so if you clicked on it, you will now have an eBay Affiliate cookie associated to that user, and IF you buy on eBay within the next 7 days, they will get the corresponding eBay Affiliate commision..

Before you ask YES, it is against the eBay Affiliate TOS to frame an eBay page.

I would like to know which one of the eBay boycotters was responsible for a scummy move like that at PSU. Was it PSUNite himself?

[bbhc]

The OAI and its forums are a great source of amusement (waves to Ray and the other OAI clowns), but I try to keep my buying and selling as far away from the online auction industry (and that includes stores attached to auction sites)  as possible...thank god almost 80% of buyers also steer clear of it or (to quote sneakymagenta) "I'd be living in a van down by the river".

My perpetual boycott of eBay and its out of the box cloned OAI alternatives continues.


EDIT:

What would be if there never was a Google?

The world would be an easier place. Our first website launched before Google launched theirs...SEO was so much easier in those pre-Google days. 

What would be if there never was a microsoft?

The MAC, Linux, and other Unix bases OSs would rule the world.
OS/2 would have achieved its rightful place as the desktop operating system of choice.
Viruses, bugs, and phishing wouldn't be nearly as big a problem.
I wouldn't have to switch from Linux to Windows to use websites that only work with IE...
(I could go on forever on this topic and my dislike of Microsoft's crapware  )

[The Bar Keep]

The OAI and its forums are a great source of amusement (waves to Ray and the other OAI clowns), but I try to keep my buying and selling as far away from the online auction industry (and that includes stores attached to auction sites)  as possible...thank god almost 80% of buyers also steer clear of it or (to quote sneakymagenta) "I'd be living in a van down by the river".

My perpetual boycott of eBay and its out of the box cloned OAI alternatives continues.


EDIT:

What would be if there never was a Google?

The world would be an easier place. Our first website launched before Google launched theirs...SEO was so much easier in those pre-Google days. 

What would be if there never was a microsoft?

The MAC, Linux, and other Unix bases OSs would rule the world.
OS/2 would have achieved its rightful place as the desktop operating system of choice.
Viruses, bugs, and phishing wouldn't be nearly as big a problem.
I wouldn't have to switch from Linux to Windows to use websites that only work with IE...
(I could go on forever on this topic and my dislike of Microsoft's crapware  )

Glad somebody finally posted, I had been waiting for one of 2 people to post and BBHC was one of them. The other poster I have been waiting on is 2boysandtoys FYI. So anyway I have had the privilege of calling both of you what I consider to be an online friend for quite some time now, BBHC longer than the other. If this post shocks either of you so be it, we are all adults here and I can take it just as I can dish it out.

Ok folks here we have two business people on opposite ends of the spectrum. One is a successful website owner and the other is a successful alternative auction seller. Both are what appear to be full time eBay boycotters, they left but not completely, check your ME pages if you want to see how you are using eBay for promotion. There is nothing wrong with that just for clarification other than Erin should remove the dead link to HB.

Same goals but two people who seem as if they are completely at odds when it comes to business plans and again that is ok, they are different plans. The problem I see here is the common goals are wrong when it comes to helping other people, yep I said it so flame or fire away. Yes, neither of these two could be termed a "hobby seller", they are full time online sellers. The common goal should be to help people fulfill there business plans. It doesn't matter if that business plan includes eBay. It doesn't matter if that business plan includes one of the alternatives. No matter what that plan is it should always be themselves first and foremost!!!

Neither can deny experience on eBay but they both fail to see how that experience molded them into the business or businesses they are today. I don't know people nor do I have the answers but I do know that if my business plan includes eBay that is tough luck for the rest of you, it's what I have chosen for my business (I can compare mine with the best of them too).

I stand by my comments in the OP with one addition which neither of the two I have talked about here have done to me directly. The change is I chose to boycott any who chose to boycott something that reflects on my business plan.

I have one final statement to make and this is out of concern for another person who I consider an online friend. Mo, slow steady growth always wins the race. I have seen how the stress is affecting you Mo and a word to the wise would be to stop and breathe for a while. I can tell from posts at PH and PSU that the stress has gotten to you Mo and my concern is for your health.

Please note the above post is not meant to belittle either Crabby Host member. It is my opinion, nothing more nothing less!! Have at it folks!!!


Joe - The Bar Keep

[2boysandtoys]

Hey all:

I guess I'll start by saying that I obviously am a bigger dork than previously admitted - I didn't know there was any reference to HB on my ebaY page.....that just 'sucks' the big one for me, and shows how much I have still to learn.

I have no opinion for boycotting the boycotters.  If it works for one, two, a few, or a few thousand - it's all good with me.  I believe that buyers and sellers are both going to settle into habits, patterns, plans and action that best work for them.  I respect each's right to their own opinion. 

I have to say that there are definitely some on PSU that are beyond 'passionate' about their business and have become obsessed with 'damaging ebaY' and daming 'ebay sellers'.  I tend to ignore them, as in my grand scheme of life, their rants, posts, actions and suggestions are not aligned with my own.  Many even go against my core value set.  But, instead of argue with 'them' or try to get them to worry about their own business/sales/actions/plans - I ignore or avoid them.

My hope for every sellers is that they find success.  I'm beginning to think for many - their success may be off-line.  You can tell those who strive for improved sales, business, etc. from those who are leading with their nose.  I had made a personal commitment to myself to use February as best as possible to help those reacting to the ebaY policy changes/fee changes, and starting 3/1, back to 'my world'.

I do not boycott ebaY.  I just don't sell there any more unless it makes Sense and Cents.  My average selling price, if an item is in demand is less than $10, so the sales life-cycle on ebaY just does not always work well for my stuff.  If my stuff changed, or my business needs changed or my life-style and choices changed, and ebaY made a better venue, I'd return.  I do still buy there - but have learned to look around - as often....deals are found off ebaY.

I'm far less concerned about the 'site' I get items from and/or sell items from and far more concerned about the quality of the experience.  The fees on ebaY didn't work for me in '05.  So, obviously, they would not work for me now.

So - gotta few 'lovely' events in RL that are taking my time, and may be around 'less' until they're resolved.  I have always said, and will continue to say, that as a member of the online world, my ultimate 'win/win' would be success for all - no matter the venue! 

[The Tavern Wench]

I would have never believed it until it actually happened but the boycott this time around has shown me just how un-business like the knee jerk reactors to the recent changes at eBay are.

The new breed of boycotters have taken it to a whole new level and have shown that truly almost anyone can set up shop on eBay and be successful.  No business sense required. 

It has been the intention of this forum to help online sellers from it's inception no matter where they sell, own website, eBay or one of the alternatives. IMO what we have witnessed, with this failed boycott of eBay, has done nothing more than take money away from online sellers who choose to sell at certain venues (not myself, I show a 40% growth rate year over year at all my websites and eBay). We have seen people give up income to take part and for what when they need the money to pay medical bills etc...

Which is exactly why you haven't seen any boycott eBay threads here.  We don't promote things like that and in fact I personally tried adamantly to reason with those who were in a sense committing business suicide...to no avail of course.  Only thing I accomplished was elevating my own blood pressure.   

If eBay never came about to be, do you think there would be millions of people earning a living and supporting themselves from online sales solely?

If it weren't for eBay none of us...including The Crabby Host Forum...would be where we are today.

What has transpired with this boycott has done nothing more that delay income for a few. I have seen threats comes from boycotters to affect sellers who choose not to boycott, get real people, has your belief in helping your fellow online sellers left you? I think it's time to come to grips with the fact that eBay is a business and a good one at that. You can choose to sell there or you can choose not to. What I don't understand is what gives the boycotters the right to take business away from people who choose to sell there only to bring more attention to alternative sites that have limited amounts of buyers. That to me is business interference and IMO is theft!!!

Like I said...a whole new breed and apparently this bunch is from the lunatic fringe.  Their attitudes and quest for vengeance are the reason I removed all of the links from my siggy at PSU.

I don't boycott making money but after this post I will be boycotting any site that has participated in the boycott of eBay based on basic principles of business.

I don't boycott making money either and I don't begrudge anyone where they choose to sell, BUT this is one time I've been making a list and keeping notes.

I will personally NOT be doing business with these people based not on where they choose to sell, but based on their attitudes and their complete disregard and/or acceptance of others choices.  This includes some of the Alternative sites themselves.


To be continued....

[The Tavern Wench]

I agree with Barkeep. I choose not to sell on ebay and not to boycott Ebay or any other site. You probably compare Ebay with the Mall of America. They both genarate lots of traffic giving you a chance at selling a lot of product. You can open a store at Mall of America but you pay huge rent costs. Same thing at Ebay you can open a store and genarate large amount of traffic but you will pay for that large volume of buyers with higher rent.

Very good analogy Bob.

You just have to adjust your margin of markup. What hurts are the sellers willing to lose money on their product just to make a sale.

Exactly!!  The new store that Joe and I are opening on eBay, we could quite easily undercut 90% of the sellers in that category and make a ton of sales, BUT we will not be doing that.  That would only hurt the other sellers and the market in general.  It makes more sense to price comparatively to the others and instead slowly and steadily build up our own customer base while enjoying a better profit margin.

[The Tavern Wench]

The world would be an easier place. Our first website launched before Google launched theirs...SEO was so much easier in those pre-Google days. 

SEO was easier, but finding stuff was more difficult IMO so I prefer it the way it is now.

The MAC, Linux, and other Unix bases OSs would rule the world.
OS/2 would have achieved its rightful place as the desktop operating system of choice.
Viruses, bugs, and phishing wouldn't be nearly as big a problem.
I wouldn't have to switch from Linux to Windows to use websites that only work with IE...
(I could go on forever on this topic and my dislike of Microsoft's crapware  )

BUT...would those even exist if someone hadn't been trying to 'build a better mousetrap' than what Microsoft had?  Maybe, maybe not.

I have no complaints against Microsoft.  I thank them daily for the ability to purchase any brand of computer and be able to use any brand of software on it.  I also thank them for enabling the average person to be able to afford to own a PC to begin with.

I remember when they didn't have hard drives, when whatever brand of computer you had, you better hope they had a lot of software available too because you wouldn't be able to use anyone else's.  Let me tell you...those days SUCKED!!

Granted that versatile compatibility is also what makes them more vulnerable to hacks, viruses, etc. but believe me, I damn sure wouldn't want to go back to the way it was before and I don't think anyone else would either.

[The Tavern Wench]

Glad somebody finally posted, I had been waiting for one of 2 people to post and BBHC was one of them. The other poster I have been waiting on is 2boysandtoys FYI.

So I take it this means you don't care about what your Wench thinks? 
Well BITE ME!  I'm going to tell you anyway.

Ok folks here we have two business people on opposite ends of the spectrum. One is a successful website owner and the other is a successful alternative auction seller. Both are what appear to be full time eBay boycotters, they left but not completely, check your ME pages if you want to see how you are using eBay for promotion. There is nothing wrong with that just for clarification other than Erin should remove the dead link to HB.

Yep.  Both are still using eBay whether they admit it or not.  A COMPLETE boycott would involve removing their 'About Me' eBay pages, as well as not using any of eBay's other companies/services such as PayPal.

That being said...I don't begrudge their decisions NOT to do those things, because it would in my opinion be foolish to give up the potential traffic exposure and the ability to provide their customers with various payment options.

Same goals but two people who seem as if they are completely at odds when it comes to business plans and again that is ok, they are different plans. The problem I see here is the common goals are wrong when it comes to helping other people, yep I said it so flame or fire away.

Agreed.  Damnit.   I was really hoping to get to flame ya!   

The common goal should be to help people fulfill there business plans. It doesn't matter if that business plan includes eBay. It doesn't matter if that business plan includes one of the alternatives.

Exactly.  We should all be working together regardless of where we prefer to sell or what our methods of promotion are.  The common goal should be to share what has successfully worked for us and encourage others to find what works for them no matter if it is at eBay, an Alternative venue, their own website or a combination thereof.

Neither can deny experience on eBay but they both fail to see how that experience molded them into the business or businesses they are today.

This is forgotten entirely too often.  Whether most want to accept the fact or not, eBay was our beginning and it will always be part of our core foundation for online selling.  How many of you have payment, shipping, returns policies based on the experiences you had on eBay?  How many of you fine tuned your customer service skills at eBay and they are paying off for you now at your new venue?

While eBay buyers may be a royal PITA sometimes, they taught us the importance of good customer service and that one aspect alone can make or break a business.  We are better, more successful sellers today because of that lesson we learned courtesy of eBay.

For sellers like BBHC, Joe and myself,  eBay gave us the desire to expand our horizons, add to our customer base and build our own websites.  It also taught us the importance of specializing and concentrating each website on a particular product to make marketing easier.

In turn, eBay did the same for Erin.  Granted she chose a different path for online success than we did by moving to the Alternative sites, but it encouraged her to expand her horizons too.  Today she is using her eBay experiences successfully to her advantage on her new venues.

The bottom line is...we are not that different.  We all have the same foundation of eBay driving us and we're all working to be the biggest success we possibly can.  It's time we quit splitting hairs on who sells where and instead start working together to help each other in whatever way we can.

I don't know people nor do I have the answers...

I have all the answers, but I've been sworn to secrecy.  Sorry. 

[The Bar Keep]

So I take it this means you don't care about what your Wench thinks?  
Well  BITE ME! I'm going to tell you anyway.

Only if you go first 

I have all the answers, but I've been sworn to secrecy.  Sorry. 

Too bad the ones you have are for the wrong questions 

Great post Deb 

[The Tavern Wench]

So I take it this means you don't care about what your Wench thinks?  
Well  BITE ME! I'm going to tell you anyway.

Only if you go first 

Bare it 

I have all the answers, but I've been sworn to secrecy.  Sorry. 

Too bad the ones you have are for the wrong questions 

    You mean they lied to me?   

[bbhc]

BUT...would those even exist if someone hadn't been trying to 'build a better mousetrap' than what Microsoft had?  Maybe, maybe not.

They weren't trying to build a better mousetrap than Microsoft...if anything it was the other way around.  Unix existed long before Microsoft was founded, Apple introduced the GUI based Mac operating system long before Microsoft launched Windows, etc.  Microsoft has never been an innovator...it's always been an copier.

Whether most want to accept the fact or not, eBay was our beginning

It wasn't ours.  We had already been a full time dot com for 3 1/2 years before we started selling on eBay in August 2001 (which was precipitated by a cash crunch caused by the collapse of the ad market that Spring/Summer and a need to raise a few thousand immediately  to pay our server bills that month...we started off our eBay career dumping dozens of domain names at way below market prices). During the years we sold on eBay it never accounted for more than 30% of our company's revenues.