eBay boycotters damaging online sellers, PSU & others

[The Bar Keep]

Well for those who want to watch what may be the infighting that will dissolve the boycott here is the link:

http://www.powersellersun...m/post-150035.html#150022


 

We now have Chinese insults being waved around. 

Are these the same people who have been at PSU for the past month screaming 'off with their heads'?  Little do these people realize the power of their words and how they are directly, or at the very least indirectly, responsible for the fervor being shown by the 'New Hard Chargers'. 

I see some serious back peddling going on now. 

Here is the first post by PSU posting ID letsroll, this one doesn't sit well with me:

LET'S ROLL - in loving memory of Todd Beamer and the passengers of the flight on 911 who overtook the terrorists. They will forever be heroes to me.

No we are not facing an obvious life and death situation on ebay but in my opinion the economic situation in the US is due to illegal immigration, inflation, unaffordable health care, and unemployment due to CORPORATE GREED. Because of these and other factors our economy is deteriorating which ultimately leads to premature deaths from drug and alcohol addictions largely attributed to the downtrodden and disillusioned members of our society who struggle to sustain a base standard of living.

As buyers and sellers on Ebay we should boycott and set a national precedence to no longer tolerate corporate greed which is bankrupting our country. So with passion I say "LET'S ROLL !!!!!"


Large Boycott being Organized for May 1st - sign up on ebay's community board under SELLER CENTRAL - we need YOU !!!!!!

Wiki page for Todd Beamer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Beamer

Wiki Page for Lisa Beamer (I have met her and she went to a high school one town over from mine).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_Beamer

I find it ironic that someone would reference "Lets Roll" while doing the same thing to our economy as what the terrorists had intended not to mention the term in it's initial use on flight 93 was the first victory on 9/11. The difference is vast in the 2 situations and it doesn't sit well with me because of those vast differences. No need to explain the differences any sane person would understand them and would show enough respect to not use that phrase in a posting ID for a boycott on eBay.

[The Pet Guy]

Here is the first post by PSU posting ID letsroll, this one doesn't sit well with me:

LET'S ROLL - in loving memory of Todd Beamer and the passengers of the flight on 911 who overtook the terrorists. They will forever be heroes to me.

No we are not facing an obvious life and death situation on ebay but in my opinion the economic situation in the US is due to illegal immigration, inflation, unaffordable health care, and unemployment due to CORPORATE GREED. Because of these and other factors our economy is deteriorating which ultimately leads to premature deaths from drug and alcohol addictions largely attributed to the downtrodden and disillusioned members of our society who struggle to sustain a base standard of living.

As buyers and sellers on Ebay we should boycott and set a national precedence to no longer tolerate corporate greed which is bankrupting our country. So with passion I say "LET'S ROLL !!!!!"


Large Boycott being Organized for May 1st - sign up on ebay's community board under SELLER CENTRAL - we need YOU !!!!!!

Wiki page for Todd Beamer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Beamer

Wiki Page for Lisa Beamer (I have met her and she went to a high school one town over from mine).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_Beamer

I find it ironic that someone would reference "Lets Roll" while doing the same thing to our economy as what the terrorists had intended not to mention the term in it's initial use on flight 93 was the first victory on 9/11. The difference is vast in the 2 situations and it doesn't sit well with me because of those vast differences. No need to explain the differences any sane person would understand them and would show enough respect to not use that phrase in a posting ID for a boycott on eBay.

I agree using this historical and tragic event for this purpose is distasteful.  Many phrases in our countries history are near sacred; this is one of them. Mr. Beamer and the others on that flight who did what they could that day are heroes and we do honor them for what they did. Let that event stand alone. Do not use it to promote something like this. I hope somehow the PSU poster gets to read this.

[2boysandtoys]

I gotta agree that the guy who used the 'letsroll' ID did not make a good choice when he used that ID and started using that phrase in his posts.  For me, personally, I got sick to my tummy.  Very, very bad taste...

To bbhc's post about the boinktards:

The major problem faced by eBay sellers (especially the ones whining about how eBay has ruined their business) isn't eBay..the main problem is that a large percentage of sellers are boinktards who never adapt their business plans to changing market conditions and then they blame eBay for their losses/decreasing sales rather than placing the blame where it belongs (i.e. on their own stupidity).

I am very certain that many of these folks never had a business plan to adapt.  Deb's quoted the phrase about how ebaY made many folks super successful that would not be 'there' or 'here' without ebaY - I 100% agree - and I suspect those screaming the loudest about what 'has been done to them' don't have a plan, don't know how to make a plan, therefore ----- very difficult to adapt.

I purchased on ebaY first as most.  I had to go 'back' and see what my history was selling.  My goal (simple) was pay for Christmas.  Successful in 2003.  Successful in 2004.  Opened a '30 day trial store in Jan 05, closed it before 30 days, and listed an auction 2-5 for a bit to pull traffic.  Christmas paid for in 2005 too.

In 06, listed 4 items for others that needed 'quick turn-around' or were popular, again pulling traffic.

I've learned from ebaY, but more as a buyer.  My real eye-opening learning experience was with WagglePop Round 1.  My first exposure to forums.  Also found FAS then.  Then OTWA, then PSU, etc....the beat goes on.

I've learned more about selling from forums and other sellers than ebaY.  I didn't even know what the heck html was, nor did I know ebaY had forums.  Not until I'd been around for years.

So - a simple goal I had when I started ebaY, and I was successful.  My expansive goal --- selling online now --- pay for my groceries.  I'm not looking to make a living selling online, just compliment my other 'activities'.  Beyond our mortgage, our largest bill is food.  We have no car payments, no other loans, etc. 

Paying for groceries for 2 growing boys is 'success' for me.  If I can also pay for our country club membership, 5 tee times each week,  clothing, leisure (tournament ball for son and I) - yippee!  But - not within the 'plan'...

Joe - I agree that our plans won't work for each other.  Pieces and parts might be adaptable to most, but with each of us having different needs and goals, our plans are not interchangeable. 

I honestly think this newest breed at PSU that's the most vocal is young, inexperienced and thinking they can just throw 'stuff' on the net and make a million.  They have no clue how much work goes into making a living, being successful, etc.  They've read too many get rich books or something, but their 'goals' are not at all in line with their actions.

As far as the boycott damaging sellers, I may be naive but I believe that good fair sellers, that focus on their business and satisfying their customers won't be damaged, but will find 'better success'.  I too can share that there are 'some' I'll not be visiting to buy from...

[2boysandtoys]

I have a silly, silly question.......and this looked as good of a place to put it as another.

2 times recently, as I'm smarter and truly desire to support any/all sellers, I've done my searching for an item/items.

I can find them on ebaY, and drilling down, the items (in both cases) are available from more than one seller.

After comparing price, feedback, shipping, etc. I zeroed in on a seller (2 different items, so 2 different sellers).

Taking it a step further, both of these sellers have their own commerce sites.

In both scenarios above, the price on their commerce site is more than their price on ebaY.  One is $10, which is pennies considering the item is $2xx.00....

The other though is more than $40 ----- $110 on the commerce site and $65 on ebaY.

I'm really drawing a blank on this big of a difference - smarter than I folks - can you explain it?

I'd love to buy off-ebaY and help the seller save fees.  I will always search this way, if it appears the seller may have a commerce site.  So - running into this twice in less than 30 days makes me wonder what I am missing....

TIA!

[The Tavern Wench]

Not a silly question. 

There may be a couple of reasons and one of them I just realized myself working with a current eBay seller setting up her new website.

1) eBay says you can't put a link on your About Me page and offer stuff cheaper.  My personal philosophy is too bad for eBay on that one.   I'll set my website prices however I want them.  Mine and Joe's newest website will be an experiment on that one. Our website prices will be much cheaper. 

Let me explain why though...Listing this stuff on eBay, I could seriously undercut 90% of the other sellers and still make a profit, BUT I don't want to lower the market price there so I'm opting to up my prices on eBay in hopes people will do like you and figure out the website is cheaper.  If the buyer prefers to stay on eBay...well then they get to pay for the privilege.   

2) Some price the stuff lower on eBay because the market price has already become devalued there and to compete they have to, but everywhere else online the typical going price is much higher.

The seller I mentioned is planning to do this.  She has a particular widget that she can only sell max for $35.00 on eBay, but at most independent websites this same widget sells for around $110.  Our advice to her was move this widget OFF eBay and only sell it on your website so your customers won't question the difference and you make a higher profit.  Heck, she would only have to sell 1 versus 3 at eBay to make the same profit!

If sellers would quit trying to undercut each other so much, you wouldn't see near as much of this.

That's just my personal take on this.  Others may know of different reasons. 

[2boysandtoys]

Thanks Deb.....I have in the past done similar searches, with the similar 'intent' - help sellers save fees, and perhaps save myself a buck/two.  In the past, I usually find comparable or 'little less' than ebaY.

So, these 2 recent searches 'baffled me'.  Now, in the first scenario, I must admit that the price was small enough to me, and the seller offered a discount on the web site for new customers that would have made it 'equal'.

So, I did some searches on the independent website feedback, and it was not 'good'.  The seller had decent feedback on ebaY - 99.xx, but the feedback for their site was poor.  I also sent a query to the website asking questions of them and did NOT get an answer.  Some of the feedback suggested they were not good at responding.

Long story short, the consumer in me felt more comfortable dealing with this supplier thru ebaY.  I've never had to engage ebaY for any dispute resolution, but with what I'd found and what was said 'off-ebay', I had some flags go off. 

Ironically enough, whenever there was neutral or neg. feedback on ebaY, and they had a few, they responded same day/next day.  So - I did got thru best offer on ebaY, they accepted, got the item and I left positive feedback today.  My experience was 'fine'.

This to me does indicate though something I wonder about some ebaY sellers.  Are they so wrapped up in Feedback that they 'forget' service?  Do they start an ecommerce site, and then don't have resources to manage both, so revert back to the comfy (ebaY)?

I do not know in this instance which came first, the website or the ebaY, but 'felt' as if I were safer transacting on ebaY.  I will say that I often refer to ebaY for going price on items.  I do not always go 'lowest'.  I often go 'middle', as I am usually 'fair' about my shipping.  So, if a buyer compared 'total cost', they will see like/best price accordingly.

Make sense? 

[The Bar Keep]

Thanks Deb.....I have in the past done similar searches, with the similar 'intent' - help sellers save fees, and perhaps save myself a buck/two.  In the past, I usually find comparable or 'little less' than ebaY.

So, these 2 recent searches 'baffled me'.  Now, in the first scenario, I must admit that the price was small enough to me, and the seller offered a discount on the web site for new customers that would have made it 'equal'.

So, I did some searches on the independent website feedback, and it was not 'good'.  The seller had decent feedback on ebaY - 99.xx, but the feedback for their site was poor.  I also sent a query to the website asking questions of them and did NOT get an answer.  Some of the feedback suggested they were not good at responding.

Long story short, the consumer in me felt more comfortable dealing with this supplier thru ebaY.  I've never had to engage ebaY for any dispute resolution, but with what I'd found and what was said 'off-ebay', I had some flags go off. 

Ironically enough, whenever there was neutral or neg. feedback on ebaY, and they had a few, they responded same day/next day.  So - I did got thru best offer on ebaY, they accepted, got the item and I left positive feedback today.  My experience was 'fine'.

This to me does indicate though something I wonder about some ebaY sellers.  Are they so wrapped up in Feedback that they 'forget' service?  Do they start an ecommerce site, and then don't have resources to manage both, so revert back to the comfy (ebaY)?

I do not know in this instance which came first, the website or the ebaY, but 'felt' as if I were safer transacting on ebaY.  I will say that I often refer to ebaY for going price on items.  I do not always go 'lowest'.  I often go 'middle', as I am usually 'fair' about my shipping.  So, if a buyer compared 'total cost', they will see like/best price accordingly.

Make sense? 

I think I understand what you are talking about Erin but it may be best for another thread related to it as it is very important. There are so many variables to cover on this subject too like impulse buyers vs. smart buyers like you Erin.

Where you asked which came first the website or eBay, there is no way to tell but it is obvious there is a lack of SEO skills and many holes in the business plan. They have the idea of a marketing channel but lack the business knowledge to pull it off.

A couple of points about some key aspects to the above:

Marketing channel - a source of exposure that won't compete with your website directly (Competing in organic search and Google Products). This is the hardest thing to pull off but can be done with a limited amount of sites due to the branding of that or those sites. EBay and Amazon are the best sources of a marketing channel at this time although there are a few others. MOST alternative sites don't provide the marketing channel desired by most independent websites.

Impulse shopper - Someone who will barrel ass in and buy. Doesn't really care about your feedback or anything else other than the product itself.

Smart Shopper - Someone who will search and search and search for the best price/quaility ratio. May be strictly an ebay shopper but can be someone who will use the entire net.

20/80 ratio - This is the rule of thumb for online buyers. 20% will buy at auction vs. 80% will buy at websites. That is not to say the 80% won't buy at auction sites, it is a ratio of online sales IMO.


Hope this helps

Joe - The Bar Keep

[The Bar Keep]

Best quote I have seen in a while at PSU. Posted by Erin and it says it all:

This may be an unpopular stance, but minimizing or maximizing ebaY's position in the market is not my goal with selling online. Selling online for 'me' is maximizing my own market position, with whatever set of tools, sites, etc. that work for my business.

 

[2boysandtoys]

Thanks Joe.....now - last time I said something about 'me' or 'my sales', the merlin dude from ebid cussed me senseless AND beyond!!!   

I have been reading a bit there tonight, and the overall 'tone' seems smarter.  Key word - 'seems'...

I think the biggest issue is folks are just ASSUMing ebaY is out to 'screw them'.  It's not personal - it's just business.  I guess I was just raised differently or something as even when things are personal, I don't 'give up' or 'give in' - I move on and find a solution.  Is it always 'successful'?  I guess - it depends on how one defines success!

BTW - miss Anal Erin Smart Shopper spent about 3 weeks shopping.  My husband was about to kill me as our new wide screen 50 inch TV was hanging 'out' on a credenza I drug out from my office...

I'm picky - I knew what I did not want; and I knew what I did not want to pay.  I'll try to shoot a photo for another thread when we have some sunlight!

Back to the topic - What absolutely kills me about PSU is the Allison's of the world who come in and state that Wagglepop is the number 1 ebaY alternative.   

And the new 'auction sites' popping up.  If anyone did any research before they opened their mouth or their site, they might realize that there is one big guy in town (ebaY) and a kazillion small guys in town.  That song, "We don't need another hero" keeps popping in my head - wonder why?   

[The Bar Keep]

Back to the topic - What absolutely kills me about PSU is the Allison's of the world who come in and state that Wagglepop is the number 1 ebaY alternative.

Yep watching that one as well. She is a persistent one I tell ya. Stupidity that can't be stopped IMO. BTW I was once promised by that one that she would prove her sales to me at TT sometime in October of 07'. It never happened and she never will do as much as a screenshot of her WP control panel to prove it (with edits of course). Nobody would believe it anyway because she is so far plugged up Ray's  when Ray opens his mouth she gets a sunburn.

And the new 'auction sites' popping up.  If anyone did any research before they opened their mouth or their site, they might realize that there is one big guy in town (ebaY) and a kazillion small guys in town.  That song, "We don't need another hero" keeps popping in my head - wonder why?

I know why for that one. Because you realize that eBay is big enough to be it's own economy. Think about it people and add up the sites. EBay is enormous when you add the market cap of paypal, shopping.com, stubhub and etc.... etc... For any of these alternative one man shows to even think to compare to that is ridiculous.

[2boysandtoys]

There's a new seller at WP who's 'spoken her mind'.  I'll leave that one alone until tomorrow....

But, I have to ask - and I think this aligns - do the new folks not want to hear 'experiences'?

I know many are from ebaY and they know no other sites, but it gets frustrating sharing our experience, and nobody listening - instead they just run here and run there and oh.....

[The Bar Keep]

There's a new seller at WP who's 'spoken her mind'.  I'll leave that one alone until tomorrow....

But, I have to ask - and I think this aligns - do the new folks not want to hear 'experiences'?

I know many are from ebaY and they know no other sites, but it gets frustrating sharing our experience, and nobody listening - instead they just run here and run there and oh.....

I don't know Erin but it is almost as if they are mad at the entire world for there failure to adapt their businesses or move on. Blame is always placed elsewhere when it is in most cases self-inflicted.

They don't want to listen to what has been proven in the past, we lived it already and they don't want to hear it. The brain washings works quickly at WP however. Think about this for a second. You have this eBay boycott but the owner of WP decides to reopen his eBay store right in the middle of it (it was closed the last time I looked before the boycott). You also have the self proclaimed Queen of WP who in fact still maintains an eBay store and herself was listing and selling on eBay during the boycott. All that is fact and easy enough to check through completed listings but the knee jerkers again will try and rationalize crap to reassure themselves that they made a rational decision in leaving eBay to begin with based on poor business decisions.


Isn't it all logical?

Joe - The Bar Keep

[bbhc]

I will say that I often refer to ebaY for going price on items.

When we're pricing items to sell we tend to completely ignore eBay (as well as Blujay and other alternative sites) because we know that 80% of online buyers are very unlikely to go near those sites no matter how low the item is priced.  We do pay attention to pricing on Amazon and other major etailers however since we're competing for the same buyers.

What absolutely kills me about PSU is the Allison's of the world who come in and state that Wagglepop is the number 1 ebaY alternative.

A few weeks ago she was telling people on the WP boards that WP had more profit potential than Amazon.   

[2boysandtoys]

I kind of 'got ahead' of myself yesterday on pricing....When I'm selling anything, and want to see about pricing, I do start with Google.  And so I also look at Amazon, Wally World, etc.  My biggest challenge in pricing items is the gently used, vintage, etc.  That's where I end up gravitating to ebaY.  I believe partially habit and partially - can't see 'opening price' on auction type things in google...

With regards to Allison and others who come 'out of the woodwork' to sing success songs and praises to 'sites', I literally sit here and just shake my head.  If their experience can be supported with facts, I am very interested in the data, information and sharing.  But, when it can't be supported with facts, it's meaningless and just clutters up boards and starts arguments.

I guess, again - I was raised differently.  I will say when I was singing the HB song, I 'felt' it would be successful.  I did OK there, and also had some decent sales there.  I watered down my kool-aid, so as to not be completely sucked in.  I tried very hard to share facts there still, even when I was into my eyeballs and beyond with the site.

The true issue is that everybody is looking for the 'next ebaY'.  If you want the ebaY format, the ebaY traffic and the ebaY way, why not just use ebaY?  I personally am not looking for 'that' and never have been.  That's the initial concept that many of these offended sellers start with and that's what needs to change.

If they come to PSU or another board, and are pizzed off and feel screwed by ebaY, why are they looking for another?  There is way too much emotion tied to sites.  The passion needs to be for a sellers' own success/sales; not for a sites' success - no matter which site (unless it's the sellers...  )

But - I still believe that those who scream the loudest about ebaY hurting them or another site 'helping them' - are those who wouldn't be able to spell business plan - let alone have one.

 

[bbhc]

The true issue is that everybody is looking for the 'next ebaY'

Everybody except buyers which is something that many OAI sellers haven't been able to grasp (and their inability to understand this simple fact of life goes back to Gold's in 1999 and every 'next eBay' that followed it).

The passion needs to be for a sellers' own success/sales; not for a sites' success

 

I kind of 'got ahead' of myself yesterday on pricing.

So did I.  If I sold on auction sites I would look at eBay pricing. Auction/venue buyers and website buyers are two different animals.