eBay Bans Sellers from Leaving Negative Feedback for Buyers

[The Bar Keep]

By Ina Steiner
AuctionBytes.com
January 29, 2008
 
eBay is making sweeping changes to its Feedback program, including prohibiting sellers from leaving negative or neutral feedback ratings for buyers. The changes come a year after eBay introduced controversial Detailed Seller Ratings (DSRs) in which buyers are able to leave anonymous ratings for sellers based on four criteria.

eBay will announce today that beginning in May, sellers will no longer be able to leave negative or neutral Feedback for buyers. eBay said the current system prevents buyers from leaving honest Feedback as they fear retaliation from the sellers if they leave a negative. "This makes it hard for buyers to distinguish between sellers while making bidding or buying decisions. In addition, when buyers receive negative Feedback, they reduce their activity in the marketplace, which in-turn harms all sellers."
 


Click here to read the entire article...

[2boysandtoys]

I may be crazy to state this....but - I do agree with this one.  This is one change that I can support on ebaY - and my position is based on personal experience.  I have a negative 'there' and it came from a seller who left retaliatory feedback. 

What's most crazy about this ----

1.  I as the buyer left feedback first - and yes...I knew it was risky, but didn't care - buyers needed to know about my experience.

2.  The seller retaliated, and left me a negative. 

3.  The seller then opted to send me a refund of shipping fees, without communication to me - just arrived in my paypal account.

4.  Without my knowledge, at some point between then and last month, the seller got their rating changed to a neutral (while I still sit with a negative rating).

5.  The seller know has been removed from ebaY!!!

 

I sent a long message last week about this situation, which I've not yet gotten a response on.  I suspect they do not know how to respond - as it just is a stupid scenario.  But - how did this seller (who by the way really starting slipping after my experience) get their rating changed to a neutral with NO knowledge on my part?

I've always felt that feedback from the buyer should be mutually exclusive of feedback from the seller.  I also always leave feedback immediately upon payment (or not) and don't care about the other party....

I'll not detail the other negative - it was on Yahoo and it's no wonder Yahoo went away - 

[The Bar Keep]

Well I feel the opposite Erin  having it as a one way street only opens the door for potential manipulation from other sellers. What is to stop another competitive seller from using a buy only ID to buy items from you and then affect you DSR? It leaves way too much to chance and the potential for abuse exists at a high percentage.

Just goes way beyond the saying, "the customer is always right" IMO. Feedback has never told the whole story of any seller and this new change will only compound the problem.

[The Tavern Wench]

I agree Joe.

The one and only neg I ever received when I was selling driftwood on eBay came from a NPB.  He didn't bother to read the auction and ASSumed I accepted PayPal despite my terms stating plainly we didn't.  When he realized this, he never bothered to pay.

I filed the UID, he didn't respond and I thought the issue was over and done with.  I didn't leave feedback for him.

Two weeks later he gave me a neg saying I tried to change the shipping costs after the auction.  THANKFULLY, he hadn't responded to the UID and eBay automatically removed the neg, but the comment remains to this day.


eBay *says* if anyone tries to use feedback extortion to simply report it.  Well in a perfect world that might work, but I've been down that path with eBay too...twice.

Once they did it in an email (not thru eBay's message system) so eBay said they couldn't verify it.  The second time it was done within the UID console comments and they still didn't do anything about it.  They even ended up removing the NPB strike against the guy!  I sincerely think the only reason he didn't neg me was because I hadn't left him feedback yet and he had bought using his selling ID by accident.


I know this is one of those issues where there are pros and cons on both sides, but I really and truly feel like eBay has backed the sellers into a corner on this one.  If the system had started out this way originally like Amazon it might be different, but too many eBay buyers know they can hold a seller hostage over feedback and this move just gives them free rein to do so.

 

[2boysandtoys]

Joe - I 'see' your side and honestly hadn't thought of it that way.  Despite my recent OLA experiences, I forget that there are 'those folks' who do intentionally, go out of their way to negatively affect others business... 

I suppose the purchase of an item to neg a seller is a small price to pay for improved sales - eh?  Now I gotta re-think this - this is another scenario, that based on the ebaY history, the feedback process just needs a major overhaul vs. a minor one.  I don't have any answers on this one - but then again....this is far from my prime 'think time'.

Mornings are 'better' for that!! 

[Platzki]

Well... I'm still selling on eBay but have been contemplating for a while closing my store and just doing auctions.  Since getting this job, I just don't have the energy or want to deal with all the crap ebay is always doing.

I still have my zen cart store but I'm not sure how long that is going to last.  My monthly profits are pitiful and I just don't feel like doing it anymore... 

The return does not match the work put in.., sorry, but it just doesn't.

I think this is a ridiculous move on eBays part and I see it ending a lot of sellers desires to be on eBay...

This is like a RayRomeo-ism... pick the one thing that would piss off the sellers the most... eBay is concerned about buyers being actie in the marketplace... What about the sellers?  No sellers means that the buyers have nthing to buy!!!!

Now buyers can neg me out the wazoo because they think their package was received a day late or it wasn't wrapped the way they would do it... and we can't do anything about it...

[getkorked]

Well, y'all, I thought I would pop in with my 2c worth on this issue.

As I have already expressed to Deb many times in the last 24 hours (thanks for listening! lol), I'm done with eBay.

I've been buying and selling on eBay since shortly after it made its debute...when it was still, for the most part, mainly for collectors.

I've paid, in these years, an ungodly amount of fees to eBay.  In return, as a seller, I have been subjected to more restricted selling practices that benefit the buyers; not me, the seller, eBay's ACTUAL customer.

In these 10+ years, I have seen my share of, shall we say, colorful buyers.  When I first began selling, there was no payment method available other than money orders; and, it was a real rarity to find a seller willing to accept personal checks.  To wait two weeks for a transaction to be completed was not unusual nor grounds for constant complaints.  The auction ended, the buyer emailed their address, sent the payment, I packed the item, sent a courtesy email to say it was shipped (which then required me to stand in long lines at the PO, mind you!), and then feedback was exchanged; with the buyer usually using feedback as their way of letting me know they received it and everything was good.

eBay soon "progressed" with the implementing of Paypal.  Wow, buyers could pay instantly!  No more trips to the bank to cash money orders.  Seller had their money days, even weeks, before they had been used to having it.  And then....Wow, we can print postage online!!  Print your postage, ship same day! 

Times were increased....from buying to shipping.  You would think feedback would only improve right?  It was good before, should be great with all these new toys, right?  WRONG!

For every "easier" method offered, buyers became more and more hell bent on their items being in their hands within impossible times frames.  What were sellers supposed to do?  Shoot it out their asses, direct to the buyer?

Apparently that was eBay's thoughts when they introduced DSRs last summer!! 

eBay must have some kind up screwed up, upside-down ladder.  With Paypal, they thought they were taking a step up.  BIN, stepping up.  High fees for new implements, step up.  DSRs, step up.  Frankly, as a seller, I only see all of these things as a step down.  Because in 1997, things were good....damn good.  Might have been slower than hell, but it was fun...and it was profitable.

Turn your ladder right f'ing side up eBay....realize your headed down and out, not up and over.  Until then, you can kiss my white ass as I push my way through the stampede headed out the wide f'ing door you opened!

And now I return to my soapbox to the next up....

Kim

[Platzki]

Well, y'all, I thought I would pop in with my 2c worth on this issue.

As I have already expressed to Deb many times in the last 24 hours (thanks for listening! lol), I'm done with eBay.

I've been buying and selling on eBay since shortly after it made its debute...when it was still, for the most part, mainly for collectors.

I've paid, in these years, an ungodly amount of fees to eBay.  In return, as a seller, I have been subjected to more restricted selling practices that benefit the buyers; not me, the seller, eBay's ACTUAL customer.

In these 10+ years, I have seen my share of, shall we say, colorful buyers.  When I first began selling, there was no payment method available other than money orders; and, it was a real rarity to find a seller willing to accept personal checks.  To wait two weeks for a transaction to be completed was not unusual nor grounds for constant complaints.  The auction ended, the buyer emailed their address, sent the payment, I packed the item, sent a courtesy email to say it was shipped (which then required me to stand in long lines at the PO, mind you!), and then feedback was exchanged; with the buyer usually using feedback as their way of letting me know they received it and everything was good.

eBay soon "progressed" with the implementing of Paypal.  Wow, buyers could pay instantly!  No more trips to the bank to cash money orders.  Seller had their money days, even weeks, before they had been used to having it.  And then....Wow, we can print postage online!!  Print your postage, ship same day! 

Times were increased....from buying to shipping.  You would think feedback would only improve right?  It was good before, should be great with all these new toys, right?  WRONG!

For every "easier" method offered, buyers became more and more hell bent on their items being in their hands within impossible times frames.  What were sellers supposed to do?  Shoot it out their asses, direct to the buyer?

Apparently that was eBay's thoughts when they introduced DSRs last summer!! 

eBay must have some kind up screwed up, upside-down ladder.  With Paypal, they thought they were taking a step up.  BIN, stepping up.  High fees for new implements, step up.  DSRs, step up.  Frankly, as a seller, I only see all of these things as a step down.  Because in 1997, things were good....damn good.  Might have been slower than hell, but it was fun...and it was profitable.

Turn your ladder right f'ing side up eBay....realize your headed down and out, not up and over.  Until then, you can kiss my white ass as I push my way through the stampede headed out the wide f'ing door you opened!

And now I return to my soapbox to the next up....

Kim

I hate it when she holds back... 

[2boysandtoys]

Hiya Kim - nice to meet ya and very well put!!! 

[chiquita]

Kim,
Right On The M-O-N-E-Y  ,
or lack of money 

I remember the good ole days, great deals, even better profit from OOAK laying around your home. The bidding wars, the money orders, those horrible pics, and yes it was all so simple.

Fast forward and when they went corporate it all went down the tubes. The biggest problem with buyers and feedback is always gonna be the shipping. As if we control UPS, Fed EX, USPS, or DHL 

I thought about going back briefly, after reading the new FVF and the rules on feedback, forget it. I would rather sell my items on craigslist before getting sucked back into the black hole of Ebay.
 

[The Tavern Wench]

I would rather sell my items on craigslist before getting sucked back into the black hole of Ebay.

You could always list them over at The Traders Post 

[The Pet Guy]

I would rather sell my items on craigslist before getting sucked back into the black hole of Ebay.

You could always list them over at The Traders Post 

Martha and I have been on eBay since November 14, 2003. We have 13,413 positive feedbacks with a 100% rating. At one point we had just under 5000 listings as of today we are at 147 listings and are reducing from there. As soon as we can we are going to be listing on http://www.thetraderspost.com It is a great looking site, easy to list into. I believe in it and the owners. I must say that it only having 68 listings is a suprise to me. Lets all get busy and support this site and have a listing party.

Who can list the most items in http://www.thetraderspost.com by February 29th I don't know maybe you maybe me lets see.

[chiquita]

Why yes I could Wench. 
I need to get on that soon
 

[chiquita]

Here is an interesting blog article by former powerseller Randy Smythe regarding the feedback changes.
The comments are also worthy of a read.

I have to say it gave me really good food for thought on the changes.

Enjoy
http://rksmythe.blogspot....-begin-feedback-wars.html

[The Bar Keep]

Ok my time to speak, standing on a tree stump (soap box won't hold my ass). Just so everyone knows I am not saying to stay at eBay or to leave, you make your own decisions but make sure you are informed before you react. Again, let me remind everyone of the date these changes are to take affect, 2/20/08.

So I own an eBay store, we all know that. What to do with all the changes that are ahead of us at eBay? Should I do a knee jerk reaction and yank my listings off? What is at stake if I do? Does eBay affect my website sales? Have we seen this before and what was the result?

Lots of questions to answer and I didn't list half of them. Lets take the one I think is most important to most others, reason being I use eBay for marketing purposes only to promote my own website.

Have we seen this before and what was the result?

Most of the members of this forum and many others have. It's for the most part why this forum exists and countless others. What I mean is, it's how we all met in the first place. If there is an online seller in this forum that has never sold on eBay please stand up.  Didn't think so. Who remembers the store fees increase of summer 06? I sure do because that was the first time I ventured off eBay and in my case it was to WP, big mistake!!! I never closed my eBay store but rather I cut back listings to the point of why bother. My first venture was to WP and we all know what a joke that turned out to be for most people!!! No advertising to draw buyers in to the products. I see that repeated a thousand times over today in the alternative to eBay sites.

Take a look at PSU and see the gaukers there foaming at the mouth for the knee jerkers. Yep it's the alternative sites. Remember the ones who don't advertise and want everyone to be positive while they take your money every month. Pardon my grouping of all alternatives but in this case it is true and with good reason. Folks there is no alternative to eBay other than yourself!!!! Let me break it down for you how I see it:

#1 My own website
#2 the secondary markets, in my case eBay.

If you don't own your own website eBay would be #1 and the alternative sites would be your secondary markets. If you own your own website but eBay is what you consider your #1 then you need to rethink your marketing. If you only sell at the alternatives you are limiting your selling due to the fact that MOST alternatives DO NOT ADVERTISE for you.


So I cut back the dead weight today on eBay, about 20% of my listings that were store items with low sell thru rates. I thought back and forth about closing, talked about doing it with Deb since the fee changes were announced. I decided not to for a few reasons. #1 reason is I am making money at eBay and am also driving traffic to my websites. I can't tell you how many customers in the past 2 weeks found me on eBay, bought an item and then ended up contacting me through my website once they put it together. #2 I am not hung up on feedback and really don't plan on counting on discounts if they ever follow through with them based on the DSR. I deal with facts and know what to expect. I expect to pay fees and make money. The minute when I stop making money on eBay is the minute I close.

Yes I could take what I spend each month on eBay fees and dump it into advertising for my website. I have already planned in a cutback on eBay spending and will transfer that spending into other forms of advertising. I would say not to do the knee jerk reaction is the best move we could all do at this point, at least the people who read this post. Let the others do what we may have done in the past and adapt to the changes as need be.

End of my stump speech, my feet are tired.


Joe - The Bar Keep