Pheebay: Judge, Jury & Executioner or OAI Pathetic Joke?

[The Bar Keep]

So we all have heard by now about Favoritism at PSU when it is in regards to Hibidder. We have seen posts removed and threads locked at will when things don't go the way of HB. Does everyone know that there is a forum that makes PSU look like a honest place when it comes to favoritism? Oh yes there is a place like that and that place is Pheebay, run by a someone named Graham (Pheebay user name sunray) from the UK (yes this is a UK based site).

So why am I talking about this place (Pheebay) today? Well it's really quite simple if you know me well enough. You can read my posts on other forum's and you will see if I see someone being done wrong I will post about it and call them on it just like I did when I started the PSU thread here. Do I make my opinions perfectly clear and so the general public can see and pass there own judgement? I think I do and that is with purpose so everyone can make there own judgement. You understand what I mean so no need to go on about that, lets talk about why I am starting this thread instead and lets hear everyone's opinions out here in the open.

So I have been watching PSU and the Pheebay forum for a while now. I knew that Graham couldn't resist not getting involved with it somehow. So I took a look at the Pheebay Plunderhere thread yesterday and the day before and guess who showed up there to pick a fight and start trouble (in a thread that is not related to his site)? Rich, the owner of Hibidder. Yep, that's right, Rich can't handle customer service questions privately or in an open forum so he runs and hides at Pheebay to a thread where he can put blame onto others instead of taking responsibility for his own lack of business sense.


Fast forward to today if you haven't read the posts in Pheebay. There is a new board over at Pheebay now which is named the dustbin. Basically that board is a place hidden from the general public (you must be a registered member to read it and I don't recommend you join) where Graham and his blind followers can let there hair down and show their true personalities. Since when, and I read when it was clearly stated, have alternative to eBay discussion boards become a place where you can attack fellow sellers instead of discussing the challenges that are facing those sellers today? When a site becomes a personal attack mechanism, as was done to Erin there today, it only proves there are hidden agendas that play along affiliated lines AKA Pheebay and Hibidder.

There's more to this, I find it Ironic that a thread that was started by Graham and was clearly started as a bashing thread of Plunderhere by Graham and his fellow admins, has now been moved to the dustbin on Pheebay. Lets talk about some inaccuracies of the forum stats at Pheebay. Do you believe their Alexa rank?   Well I don't and I consider it obvious manipulation when you consider there is no visable member list. Oh yeah I can check members that are active by manipulating the ID numbers in the url and to say the least there are quite a few members that have been banned or removed.


I open this thread up for discussion now. Yes for public view like all threads should be.


Joe - The Bar Keep

[The Tavern Wench]

The answer is....all of the above.

Apparently sometime last night Sunray (Graham) decided the OAI forums had too much bashing going on and needed to be 'cleaned up'.  So...he and his Pheeebay cronies decided this was a job for them and they elected themselves to bring unity (cough) to the OAI world by outting everyone THEY think is responsible for posting bad things about alternative auction sites.

Their first step towards this huge and daunting task?  Start a new board and post bashing threads about bashing threads.      

What's wrong with this picture? 

[2boysandtoys]

Well.....never at a loss for words, I can say that I never go to Pheebay.  When it started, I went once or twice and immediately knew it was not for me.  There are many reasons why, but - let's just say that I like discussions with facts - not pontificating persons droning on and on about nothing at all.

So - my exposure over there is truly limited.  Having said this, with what has happened today/last night - dunno when - I'm truly not surprised.  When I first met Rich, I felt his intentions were genuine. 

When I parted ways with HiBidder, I still believed that.  However, as time went on and I saw 'the new landscape' of the 'family' - I began to loose faith.  I tried to stay close to the site, as my business sense suggests 'never close doors'.  However, for a reason I'll never know - I was forced out.

Now - you ask....what does this have to do with Pheebay?    - knowing Rich as well as I do, I believe he's decided - if I can't 'beat the trolls' - I'll just join them.  Buddy up, call them friend, and let them call me a gent. and 'I'll get customers' this way!!  I don't judge folks and I will not judge folks - not my 'make-up' - but I will say that my business experience does suggest that it takes a certain kind of leadership to affect change.  And - I've not seen it yet on Pheebay and / or Hibidder.com

I do have to admit that I did see their Alexa rating here recently and was 'pleased for them'.  However, the self-admitted numpty, did wonder how they could be so super close to PSU, which has been around for 2+ years longer, has a heckova lot more page views and members.  So - I did scan and didn't see anything/threads that appeared to be pulling in thousands of page views.  I figured either I was more numpty than originally admitted OR they were cooking the books.

Most surprising to me, is I do not think that all there are 'idiots'.  I do think some are.  What intelligent person reads the PSU threads and does NOT see that the issue is HiBidder volunteers overreacting to everything said about the site vs. 'bashing'.  My definition of bashing is indeed very different. 

I must say though - the posts about me are shameful.  Not relative to me - no skin off my lips and won't affect my life/sales - but how shameful for them.  To pull out a member of another forum and begin to analyze their intent, purpose, agenda, alignment -  !!  As I said on PSU - it truly makes them look foolish and I feel for those I respect that are members of Pheebay. 

My teenage boys talk 'at me' every day.  It's expected with teenagers.  But adults?  online?    it's just blazingly funny -  !!

I don't even remember where now - if it's on Pheebay or on PSU, but JunkyardJim gives Mo a hard time for 'employing' a felon.  Whatever - Rich employed her first, then she couldn't stand 'it' any more and departed for PlunderHere.  She was long gone before Mo even took over - Suzanne had to deal with JYJ then.  In all honesty, I was anti-PlunderHere for a long while - simply because of the various 'things' Rich said.  I believed him instead of doing my own research and drawing my own conclusions.  Somebody should have smacked me hard at that point of my online career.

Rich is a charming person.  He genuinely cares about people.  Yet - he is a car salesman, and he truly enjoys all this drama.  Back when he was on ECA, a long while ago, he even said then that auction site ownership was a hobby.  So - all this pot-stirring is entertainment to him.  Nothing more, and nothing less.

I've taken the 'long way home' in my post - but to answer the original question - I believe, as of today or whenever the posts came out about me, Pheebay  became an OAI Pathetic Joke!  Until then, had no opinion - good, bad or indifferent.  Now - they have basically shown that their intentions are not alignment at all, but rather trolling, stirring the pot and 'cooking my goose'!!!

  for listening and of course, all this is  !!

[chiquita]

 

[The Bar Keep]

So this is sort of a continuation of the Hibidder customer service problems, or lack there of. The thread that started the dustbin threads at Pheebay was the Plunderhere thread. Yes Rich showed his cowardly face inside a thread to continue a personal attack on Mo (the owner of Plunderhere) that was started by Graham (posting ID sunray on Pheebay) in that same thread. I don't know if anyone has had the chance to read that originating thread but if you haven't already it has also been moved to the dustbin. That thread tells all, the way Graham and a few of the Pheebay admins deliberately spread rumors about Plunderhere. That is also continued in the dustbin thread as it seems they have some great desire to deliberately bash at will Plunderhere and particularly the site owner, Mo.

Did you know there is also another thread not yet hidden that discusses how they want to see unity in the alternative world instead of what they term negative posts? Oh yeah, they are negative when sites like Hibidder can't answer simple legitimate business questions like why was I banned or where are the walmart gift cards that someone was promised for winning their contest. Oh yeah those are negative posts alright.  They can explain it away anyway they like but they can't dispute the fact that Bays was robbed and Erin was disrespected. Pheebay seems to support that type of think wouldn't you say, but Mo is at fault in there eyes. Mo is nothing more than competition to them and rather then accept Hibidders own failures they will resort to making something up to take the pressure off themselves rather then deal with their own issues.

So take a good look at the thread about negative posts and see what they are thinking. Do you believe they actually believe what they type? I can't. How does someone not realize that trying to be an alternative to eBay on a much larger scale is not something that is going to originate from the alternative sites as they are today when it comes to auctions? Hello people there is an alternative to eBay coming in the near future when it comes to auctions and the alternatives are already there now when it comes to buy it now (independent websites). Nope Yahoo is not planning some new auction site, Overstock is not the alternative they wish they could be. Google is going to be the auctions alternative that will compete with eBay. Wake up and look towards the future Graham, stop the pipe dreaming and look at what has transpired. Will there be an alternative to eBay in terms of auctions? Yes there will be but not in the way you see it Graham.

Will the alternative sites that are available today survive in a world with 2 auction giants? yes but the growth will slow to a complete halt and even pull back quite a bit.


 


Joe - The Bar Keep

[2boysandtoys]

 

OMG - I am beyond...

That's just way toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo darn funny!!!! 

Joe - I can give some history here and quite frankly - Mo is just the 'scape goat'.

1.   Rich starts HB.
2.   Rich meets Suzanne at the PHPPRObid forum.
3.   Rich hires Suzanne.
4.   Site grows.
5.   Rich and Suzanne 'part ways' - there is much more here....but I'll leave that alone.  Rumor and speculation and Rich suggest there was 'this, that and the other' stolen.  BUT - never proven, never fact-based - all 'spoken'.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Enter Erin - Stage Left~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

6.    Suzanne rolls out PH.  She had it for a while and it was a project, but she rolls it out.
7.    Sellers go to 'see' PH.  Some join, and God forbid - some are HB sellers.
8.    Rich doesn't like this.  Erin keeps reminding him that Sellers sell.  Sellers explore sites.  This is what sellers do!!! 
9.    A Seller suggests "unity".  That seller talks to each site owner, and shares back to PSU that Rich from HB says 'not ready for growth'.  Suzanne says 'bring it on'.
10.  All He!! breaks loose!  Every person has their own opinion.  It's mud-slinging all over. 
11.  HB database implodes.
12.  Some sellers stay and rebuild; some sellers depart for other places.  IF they go to PH, they are deemed 'the enemy'.
13.  Some 'status quo' and 'growth' happens. 
14.  Soap Opera Saga on Forums.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Exit Erin - Stage Left~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

15.  Extreme Infighting Among the HB Moderators.
16.  Some are 'fired' some are 'banned' - and I dunno what else.
17.  The Bays Gift Card 'event'.
18.  Suzanne Sells PH.
19.  Mo Buys PH.
18.  The Erin Event.

Poor Mo - she bought 'this' never-ending Rich designed 'PlunderHere is bad' scenario...And - this whole thing started when Suzanne left HB.  And then opened PH.  If anyone takes the time to go back and go thru the various threads and aligns the 'reality' with the dates - the common 'theme' and 'driver' is HB!  Since Suzanne left HB, Rich was intent on ensuring that Plunderhere would NEVER succeed.  He had more money, he had more power, etc....

So - even tho Suzanne has since moved on, the 'hate Plunderhere' saga continues.  Trust me when I say I could put 1,000 points out here to justify my 18.  I won't do that.  Just not worth my time nor worth my fingers to type it all.  But - believe me when I say that this is so far from business - it's so darn personal.    - not fair to/for Mo at all. 

Now....enter the whole Pheebay 'club'.  Back a long while ago, when i was still 'active' at HB and still Admin'g, I 'met' Junkyard Jim thru another moderator/seller.  Had an opinion from the start which has continued thru today. 

So - the real question of the day....do you think ABC, NBC or CBS is interested in a new Soap Oprah script?  Cuz....that's pretty much what we got - and any fool should be able to see that Mo is just stuck in the wrong spot - all because she purchased PH from Suzanne - whom Rich was determined would NOT succeed... :rollieyes: :rollieyes:

I need another set of drinks now...Hiya to our 2 guests!   

edited to correct PH and HB - in the wrong spots... :rollieyes:

[LadyBugAngel]

Hi Everyone Just joined and Pretty cool site so far that I have seen!

Erin, All I can say is I hope that this is resolved soon for your sake.

<zip> Not saying another word about it now!!    There I'm not silent LOL   

I am not condoning what is done as I don't like it, but as a site owner I don't want to get into the trashing of people or sites.

[The Bar Keep]

Quote below was made in the Pheebay Dustbin by Graham (posting ID sunray)

Of course I would never say anything like this in any other forum. 

But rest assured, next time you or any of your friends start another negative thread aimed at trashing sites via search engine crawlers and lamely justified as 'free speech' you will be offered the chance to explain your motivation and justification here in the dustbin. Because we too have the right to free speech.

You managed to keep your foul mouth shut for about 24 hours here. Can you beat that record?

Since some of that forum has already been posted at PSU I felt the need to show exactly where the threats are coming from. You can make your own judgements but to me the statement in the quote above speaks volumes of what kind of insane person is running the show over at Pheebay. Please note this threat was aimed at Mo, owner of www.plunderhere.com


Joe - The Bar Keep

[Mojavelyn]

far from business - it's so darn personal.    - not fair to/for Mo at all. 

Now....enter the whole Pheebay 'club'.  Back a long while ago, when i was still 'active' at PH and still Admin'g, I 'met' Junkyard Jim thru another moderator/seller.  Had an opinion from the start which has continued thru today. 

So - the real question of the day....do you think ABC, NBC or CBS is interested in a new Soap Oprah script?  Cuz....that's pretty much what we got - and any fool should be able to see that Mo is just stuck in the wrong spot - all because she purchased HB from Suzanne - whom Rich was determined would NOT succeed... 

Ut oh... someone's had too much to drink...  Got PH and Hb mixed up....

Geez, I could take that wrong too!!! LOL

But to answer Graham... Pheebay has lost all credibility now in the OAI. People have had enough of your duplicitous ways and this proves it.

I didn't join your Unity Network...

Now because of the way you have treated me, my site and my sellers... Every site will know that you will treat them the same way when they won't kowtow to you and your dogs.  At least when I called you a ballless bastard I didn't hide behind layers of fictious names.

Rich... if you would step up to the plate and be a man instead of a spineless wuss... maybe your former members wouldn't have to make so many posts about you and your site.  If you can bash PlunderHere... then you can answer your former members. Not your spokeholes... YOU!  But I seriously doubt you will ever be a real man.

Passion Vine house, you did not apologize to me. You did admit you blundered, but you kept right on bashing Plunderhere. You never directed your post to me, you just threw an couple of statements out and went on about your business of bashing me and PlunderHere. Does that sound like the actions of a sincere apology to you? Or have you been around them for so long you can't think for yourself anymore?

But now... every site knows what kind of treatment they can expect out of pheebay. 

[ABeautifulSecret]

Last night I decided to check out the Pheebay forum to see how big of a hole Graham (sunray) has dug for himself...

While I was there sunray was there himself. I guess he wondered who I was visiting the forum so he came over to my store for a visit. So now I have his ISP address and I also noticed something else. While looking who was online at my store, his info came up - along with the knowledge that he uses the Alexa Toolbar.

So Hi Sunray!  :bye7: I'm so happy I rate a visit.

So back to topic ......

I can't believe what he is doing. He's aligning himself with the scum of the earth to better himself? He opens this new thread in hopes of getting his views/sales up. He jumps on any band wagon he feels fit. Doesn't he realize that this is hurting him and his members? I really don't care that its hurting him, but I am trying to be nice

Erin - I think you have legit questions that aren't being answered. You've asked to have your info removed, you've asked for someone to contact you ....And no one can give you an answer. I laughed at the thread there when they stated that you are just complaining for the past year Well, what the hell are they doing? At least you have given them something to 'unite' themselves with Hold your head up high, you've done nothing wrong. Maybe we'll get some answers for you here 

I think it was a stupid move to create this new thread. You got complaints or issues about a site, it should stick to that thread. But that's ok ..... Hey! How about a new thread at Crabby? I bet it would fill up quick 

Let's see who visits my site today

~Patti~

[2boysandtoys]

LadyBugAngel - I completely understand your position, and I completely respect it!  As an auction site owner, often it's the right answer to stay focused on your own business - it's 'all good' with me!!

Mo - I am so sorry......I am not surprised that I twisted the 2 in my brain - and I'll fix that.  I have to fix that, quite frankly - as what's most amusing is the whole PH vs. HB is all existing ONLY in Rich's head.  Of course, it filters down for a variety of reasons; I'll stop 'here'.

Patti - Congrats on the visit to your site; hoping it's one of many to come!!  After all, we are here for business reasons - eh? 

I will stand firm when I say that discussing unity 'publicly' then setting up a private area, the 'dustbin' to air the dirty laundry is an OK strategy.  I just wanna know when my title changed from OAI Seller to 'dirty laundry'?   

Had to throw a funny in - it is Monday after all.  In all seriousness - if anybody from any forum anywhere can explain to me how I got sucked into the dustbin of pheebay, a super small forum that inflates their alexa ratings - I'd love to hear it! 

Other than a 'perceived' alliance with Plunderhere, I can't see a connection.   

The only commonality between the flying emotions on PSU, the flaming laundry at pheebay and the honest and pointed discussion here is RICH and HiBidder.com.  Talk about stirring the pot....

One final question seeking clarification - can someone please explain to me how a member suggesting a site is slow or an issue is happening is bashing?  And on the same note, but a slightly different question, since when did an online website have feelings that need to be considered?   

I can NOT believe the extended and continued perpetuation of drama that Hibidder.com permeates through-out the OAI.  I do not know Graham, but now that I know his handle on pheebay, can suggest his style is/was one of the elements that made me stay far away from pheebay.  I am super surprised tho that as a forum owner pushing for unity he and those that manage that site with him would align with ONE auction site owner who thrives and lives for the drama. 

It is a shame - I used to tell Rich all the time - 'this may be your hobby, but to the sellers it's their business'.  He never 'got it' - but the seed was planted....

[LadyBugAngel]

Thank you Erin, I hope their are no hard feeling across the board.

I will say that I have put up my objections to the dustbin being closed on the pheebay site.  The responses to that are maybe it should be open, but now they are afraid because of language that it might not happen..... Again I guess thats how they want to run their site.

Sad part about all of this is that it could have been resolved a long time ago if the site owner would have contacted the person with a problem instead of letting it go on and on.  As I stated on PSU I would have handled this very differently, but its not my site so I don't have that say so.

Good luck on the resolution and Wtg Patti for that extra traffic to your site LOLOLOL!!!!   

[2boysandtoys]

Hey girl - never any hard feelings from me - I promise!  It's all good.  And - I appreciate you putting up objections over there.  I have opinions on the whole premise of a 'dustbin' - I think the intent was good - I think the reality is/was very poor business -  !!

I seriously expect no resolution.  I expect the drama to continue, as that appears to be the desired state from one/two/few folks.  I do guess that having a virtual life is better than no life - or so it seems!

You do suggest a very good point - none of this would 'even be' if customer issues were resolved in a timely manner.  I do believe fundamentally that all business folks attempt to please customers and address issues in a timely manner - just good business sense.

What we all should take away from this, as I'm a firm believer that nothing happens by accident is that when customers' are left 'feeling as if their issues were not addressed or fixed', there is a long-lasting impact - that affects much more than realized.  No matter the size of a business, there usually are processes and procedures.  If it's not working, the break-down needs to be identified and rectified.

There are some folks, who no matter what we do as business persons will never be satisfied.  However, attempting to resolve shows much more character than ignoring the customer and the issue(s).

Have a marvelous day and tell your Mom I said 'hey there'!!!! 

[The Bar Keep]

Just a quick bring you up to speed why Pheebay has locked away their true thoughts in the Dustbin thread.


Post by post what started it all:

sunray: Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:32 am

PlunderHere discussion

sunray: Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:06 pm

Just noticed a seller on PlunderHere that seems to have been a member there for barely a week yet he's managed to get 1000+ feedback  Am I missing something?

Passion Vine House: Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

I've been wondering about the success of PH myself. Is it likely they are importing feedback without acknowledging the source? If a new member joins PH and has 400 FB on eBay does that automatically become their FB on PH?
I admit I know very little about PH but their cheerleaders are very active on PSU. Do we have any reps here from PH?

Passion Vine House: Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:12 pm

I just had a look at PH. They import feedback from other sites but I can't see if they admit doing so or if they are trying to mislead people into thinking that the feedback is all from PH.

I saw one seller with a FB of 27 but it comes from only three different buyers. I think eBay would call that a FB of 3.

Does MO own PH or is she a front for that AuctionQuests guy?

sunray: Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:39 pm

I think AQ Ray owns PH but Mo admins the site for him. Yes I saw a massive feedback account but only 8 trades for cheap baseball cards so it seems it is imported feedback. I think that should be made clearer as it could put people off if they think the feedback system is inflated or whatever.

Just looked on PSU to see if theres any comment about it. Couldn;t see any but notice they are pleased with how their Sell thru rates are improving since Mo took the helm.

Passion Vine House: Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:03 pm

I had a quick look at PSU also. I saw one seller celebrating the fact that he/she has had his/her first sale of over $20 in a year. I'm wondering WTF is that person doing calling themselves a 'seller'.
I checked...they sell 20cent baseball cards. I guess that is one way of building feedback.

How do you check their STR? Is their STR any better than all the other alts? Wait a minute.....I'm not joing any site that is owned by that AQ guy.

Passion Vine House: Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:48 pm

I've just had a look at the latest discussions on PSU. It seems there is still some confusion over the ownership of PlunderHere. MO says now she owns it so why the confusion. She does seem to be very close with the AuctionQuest guy.

Edited to remove link to Pheebay's tiny url joke

sunray: Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:32 pm

Heared something very interesting that may help you understand a bit more about PlunderHere PVH.

I had better PM you as I can't say this about Plunder Here with absolute 100% certainty and don't want to get in trouble!! 

Nowt wrong with a bit of juicy gossip now and again is there!?!

Getting interesting in the above quote.

Passion Vine House: Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:05 pm

HOLY CRAP BATMAN. I'M FLABBERGASTED.

Trouble is we have got to be 100% sure before going public with that fact.

I repeat...HOLY S***

Do you mind if I ask around and try to find out more?

Oh that thread goes on and on displaying the attempted defaming of Mo and www.plunderhere.com

After that point Mo and Ray from AQ entered to defend there names. Why I C & P'ed those posts over here is because of the quotes below:


Quote from sunray:

The fact is, if you post your opinions in public forums and blogs and sign your name after them you are inviting comment by anyone, anywhere on the web, to comment or respond. And likewise you can respond to those comments etc. It is normal practice and I would hope PSU are pleased to see some one way links to their content being generated here or on other websites.

Quote from sunray:

So for now every member of Pheebay can see the forum and contribute to it or ignore it if they wish. We do not disallow anyone from joining Pheebay if they wish, free of any cost, and only decline membership to obvious spammers etc. Members can also request cancelation of their membership once they've viewed the forum if they wish.

Since anyone can join that deems it public information but requiring people to join to view it says their only intentions is to steal traffic away from legitimate seller forums. No need to hide your true intentions anymore Graham I have no problem sharing the TRUTH about your business character as well as the characteristics of your business relationship with Hibidder. Remember Graham, you own your own words and now they are forever captured here.



Joe - The Bar Keep

[vinewood]

  all i  know  is  the  tansfer  of  feedback  from E  is the same on HB as it is on  PH   ~~~