Question about Keywords

[chiquita]

This may seem like a really naive question but here goes. After reading a ummm debate thread on PSU the subject of keywords, and google products vs. google search came up. Deb offered some excellent advice and examples.

I know that we as sellers often forget and will use keywords, and phrases that are not what a regular buyer would use. It comes with the territory of selling online. 

I was hoping that Deb, Joe and anyone else who has tips, tools available, etc... could provide us with a refresher course, including where and how to test out our keywords.

Also it wouldn't hurt to revisit the differences in google products(shopping) regular google search, and doing a google base feed. I remember when I had an ebay store I would do a manual google base feed and my website has a mod to do the feed now.

I am not concerned with yahoo or aol searches, because most people "google". I don't know but am guessing that keyword selection if done well would optimize your items on any of these searches.
 

So Crabby Peeps let me hear from you. What has worked, not worked, what are you doing for your items in terms of SEO?
 

[QUILT]

I can't help you Liz, but I love your suggestions.  I am of course taking notes 

[The Bar Keep]

Waiting to hear what Deb has to say first because opinions are broad on the google products vs. organic search.

Ladies first Deb... 

[chiquita]

 

[The Tavern Wench]

I know that we as sellers often forget and will use keywords, and phrases that are not what a regular buyer would use. It comes with the territory of selling online. 

I know Joe disagrees with me on this one somewhat, but too bad.  I'm right. 

You can use http://freekeywords.wordtracker.com/
I normally use a paid version at www.nichebot.com, but I wanted to find one y'all could use and I kinda like this one.  A lot. 



What I usually do initially is plug in one keyword, for instance 'Candles'.  It will show me the top 100 searches made with the word 'Candles' and an estimated how many times it was searched for recently. 

From looking at the list, I can see that the more popular search terms for my products in order are:

soy candles
scented soy candles
richly scented candles
scented candles
richly scented candle
highly scented candles
scented pillar candles
jar candles

That's how I usually select the keywords I optimize my site/auction listings for.  If you click on the individual keywords in the list, it will give you another list of searches including that term which will narrow it down even a bit further for you.

Also it wouldn't hurt to revisit the differences in google products(shopping) regular google search, and doing a google base feed. I remember when I had an ebay store I would do a manual google base feed and my website has a mod to do the feed now.

I'll let Joe handle that one. 

I am not concerned with yahoo or aol searches, because most people "google". I don't know but am guessing that keyword selection if done well would optimize your items on any of these searches.
 

Not necessarily true.  It's hard to optimize for both Yahoo and Google.  They don't always like the same things.


Don't know if that helped much, but maybe it's a start. 

[The Bar Keep]

Just for the record Deb blind sided me with a different approach in this instance. Yes it is true Niche Bot is where Deb and I will go to find keywords or keyword phrases. Now take into consideration that Deb knows candles very well and I would expect her to whip out keywords for that product line like she did. Switch the product line up and I find myself laughing at the robotic sounding keywords she will come up with.


#1 rule when checking for keywords. Base them on how a buyer would search for your products and not on how a bot reports keywords through these types of tools. What a bot likes and what a buyer would search by are 2 very different things. Look at the report and discount the robotic terms.

Definition of Google products - Where BUYERS search and shop. This is not organic search nor is it traditional SEO. Yes it is a form of SEO but in reality this is where your Google base feeds get showcased to buyers.

The Google products that show up on page one of organic search are not organic search results. They are a way for Google to remind shoppers that there is this whole other section if you are looking TANGIBLE GOODS.

Does what you send to Google base insure that all of that feed will show results in Google products search? Nope, there is a huge unexplained difference most of the time. Google products doesn't say Beta anymore but it should.

Here is a ranking scale for organic search. (I made it up, hope it helps you better understand ranking)

F) Google page 1 results with 1,000 results or less = an embaressment if you don't show up in any of the following (very specific search terms, 5 words or more most times)

E) Google page 1 with 10,000 results or less = better than being on page 2 but still need more work. (specific search terms, 4 words or more most times)

D) Google page 1 with 100,000 results or less = can be proud for getting a result, something is working right. ( broad phrase, 3 words or more)

C) Google page 1 with 1,000,000 results or less = Pretty nifty, look to target in this area!!! (keyword or keyword phrase 2 words Apox.)

B) Google page 1 with 10,000,000 results or less = Behold you have done something extremely right. (targeted keyword)

A) Google page 1 with over 10,000,000 results = Larger stores and or sites, if you are an independent in this area please share your SEO skills.


Please note: The above scale is meant to show consistent results in those areas. If you fall in one area most of the time that would be considered your SEO score based on the letter grade.


Joe - The Bar keep

[QUILT]

Wow!  Great info everyone     Thank You!

[The Tavern Wench]

Just for the record Deb blind sided me with a different approach in this instance.

Maybe that will teach you not to tell me to post first so you can disagree with me. 

Just for the record...I don't give away ALL my SEO secrets even to you. 
Gotta make sure you keep me around one way or another.   

Yes it is true Niche Bot is where Deb and I will go to find keywords or keyword phrases. Now take into consideration that Deb knows candles very well and I would expect her to whip out keywords for that product line like she did. Switch the product line up and I find myself laughing at the robotic sounding keywords she will come up with.

Joe is right.  You do have to watch which keywords you pick because some are very robotic sounding.  It also does help to know your product.

Let's test it.  Somebody here tell us what product you sell and we'll do a keyword search to see what we come up with. 

[2boysandtoys]

I'd be happy to help ya out - however, I sell anything and everything...therefore just call me the Queen of Clutter?!  Can you SEO THAT?   

I'm so 'doomed' in you two's way of thinking!!!   

I will say tho....if a searcher puts in (and who in their right mind would):

Levis steals deals

I'm on page 2!!! 

[The Pet Guy]

Diecast, Toy Vehicles

[The Tavern Wench]

I'd be happy to help ya out - however, I sell anything and everything...therefore just call me the Queen of Clutter?!  Can you SEO THAT?  

I'm so 'doomed' in you two's way of thinking!!!  

I will say tho....if a searcher puts in (and who in their right mind would):

Levis steals deals

I'm on page 2!!! 

 

That is one reason why Joe and I always recommend 'specializing' your site if possible.  It is VERY difficult to optimize keywords when you sell a variety of items.  Hence why the alternative sites have trouble and just about have to do paid advertising.

What I would do in a situation like yours (granted this is just off the top of my head)  is try to target general key phrases places like your About Me page, your PH Store landing page, etc.

Like maybe 'women's apparel' or 'women's jeans' etc.  You know what I mean...vague but yet still something a buyer might be looking for.  I know when my tall skinny boy needed slim jeans, I did a bazillion searches for terms as broad as 'boys jeans slim' and things like that.  I was desperate because he was wearing high waters. 

[2boysandtoys]

I know...I know - goodness.....this is why it's so darn overwhelming for me - and I just want to keep my jammies on and drive all over town!!!   

The 'worst' of all this - I still have thousands and thousands of items to list and ya know what?  I'll never get them all 'up'....need to hire help (and it will not be the '2boys' of my home!

BTW - your buddy on PSU has been missing as she's moved to another place to shout from the rooftops!  I'm going to send ya a PM!  You'll get a kick outa it - I promise!! 

Hey - while Harold's not here, perhaps you two can do your magic with 'his' stuff.  He's smart (and followed your instructions), and has his items in different stores.  He's got his pet items, perfumes, nighties, etc. all separate....so - go for it - I'd love to see the magic you two work!   

[The Tavern Wench]

Diecast, Toy Vehicles

Let's start with Diecast.  I put that into the research tool and got (top 7 on the list) :

3,186 searches (top 100 only)
Searches Keyword
3,186 total searches
352 diecast
226 diecast cars
139 diecast dies
107 molds diecast
103 diecast model cars
80 nascar diecast
74 diecast models

From that list, your best keywords would be:

diecast cars
diecast model cars
diecast models

Typically a research tool will distinguish between the singluar and plural version of a search term.  THIS DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE in the Search Results.

Example:  candles has 2585 searches but candle only has 1176


This particular search did not show that difference, so I'm going to assume most searches are done using the word 'cars', so I would recommend you use that term too.


When I ran 'Toy Vehicles' I started with the VERY generic term 'Toy', needless to say it produced varied results. Top 20 results:

33944 toys r us 
7915 toys
5331 toy recalls
4784 dog toys
4655 adult toys Val have you been googling again?!? 
3876 kb toys
3731 toys for tots
3146 shiny toy guns
2785 best selling toys
1709 ki toy johnson
1679 wood toys
1569 toy stores
1401 toy
1200 evil knievel toys
1196 sign a family up for toys for tots
1084 donate toys
1080 toy box
1066 toy story
866 educational toys
855 top 10 toys
852 toys are us

I had to look further down to find 'toys' pertaining to vehicles, but that's ok!

387 remote control toys
350 toy trucks
265 toy trains
238 toy cars

"toy vehicles" only had 6 searches, so you definitely do not want to use that for your search term.

I refined it a bit and checked 'toy car':

238 toy cars
88 toy car

So using the 's' can double your hits.


Now that's how I would do this, but Joe may do it differently, so we'll get his input when he gets back online. 

[The Pet Guy]

OT / Please move to where it should be.

Didn't know where to post this. We live in Virginia. They just announced on TV that the Norfolk Virginia based on-line company of Lillian Vernon was laying off half of its people 175 plus permanently because of slow sales. 

http://www.lillianvernon.com/home.jsp

See the story

http://www.wvec.com/news/...lian_vernon.c6098a61.html

[The Bar Keep]

diecast cars
diecast model cars
diecast models

I agree with the ones above however way too few and in this case it is a product I know. Please note it is always best to choose a product line that you are passionate about. Most collectors are searching for a particular company made, model etc... I would lean a little bit more towards combining the above with below. It took me 5 minutes to get the list below and I actually stumbled upon a way to get it about a week ago. My secret Deb.  I would aslo be adding a few personal choices.

Hot wheels
Matchbox
Johnny lightning
Ford
Ertl
Chevrolet
Corgi
Corvette
Dodge
Dub
Ferrari
Ford
Hot wheels
Jada toys
Johnny lightning
Maisto
Matchbox
Minichamps
nascar
Pontiac
Racing champions
Tonka